DD in a Christian Marriage

By: Ned & Maria

Introduction and Definitions

In the marriage relationship there is a past practice that I am sure you must have heard of which is called accountability or proactive love model of marriage. Today it is quite controversial and consists of a loving Christian husband using his authority and headship in a marriage in a very proactive, non-passive way to help his wife grow and mature spiritually. She is expected to submit and he is to love and protect her - both following the roles that Bible Believing Christians always agree upon.

What makes this model unique in the current times and culture is that the husband, in order to love his wife, has decided to use what might be called "God mirroring" or "practical godliness" - in other words, a following of God's methods of how He uses authority, and how God expects and tells mere humans to carry out their delegated authority.

This leads to physical discipline to lovingly keep the wife accountable to her master's God given authority. After these marriage relationships have been living with the husband as head and the wife in subjection to his authority, the wife always desires greatly to have this type of relationship with her husband, feeling that the husband is showing practical love when he corrects her with physical and painful discipline for sinful habits or other various things. She wants to be in subjection and so obeying means allowing discipline in any way her master/husband determines is necessary.

The discipline of a master/husband is not based on hitting with fists or fighting in general and in fact is potentially to help avoid improper male aggression and abusiveness of that sort. Instead, the husband has the right to thoughtfully use Biblical chastising to help correct his wife, arguing that it cannot be abuse since God gives merit to human leaders using discipline in the outwork of authority. If authority is to exist at all, the DD (persons using domestic discipline) reasoning goes, it must have consequences to be genuine and not merely a sham. Keep in mind that this is all in the context of a Christian Marriage.

The fact is that many pastors are involved with this way of life, including myself, which only goes to show that there are some pastors that are still reading and obeying all of God's word. It is hard to determine just how common this lifestyle is, given the fear of being laughed at or judged if others find out that this is your conviction. So should we hide the fact that we obey the entire Bible in order to avoid ridicule? I believe we should not hide this fact but rather tell everyone we can how to have a great Biblical marriage and be pleasing to the Father at the same time. That is the reason we developed this Yahoo group (Masters and Slaves For Jesus), so we can be the 'tip of the sword'; bringing back Christians to the way the Lord has designed His children to live.

A woman is to grow and blossom into a strong, vibrant, free and joyful woman of God through obeying the instructions she has received from God in the Bible! But some wives seem caught in destructive habits and attitude problems and other things that leave them weaker than they should be. For most believers, most of the blame comes from not understanding God's method of producing such 'peaceable fruit' in a woman's life. The husband is to 'tend his garden' in love with prayer, loving her enough to help her change in his 'Christian position of Authority'. Passivity in a man is a denial of manhood - he is called to love her like Christ loves the church, and he cannot do that if he simply allows her to hurt herself while he has the authority (and therefore the responsibility) to step in and help love her through the areas of spiritual growth needed. Every husband/master must use wisdom to begin to train his wife; brute force will not work. The wife must desire to be obedient to God and the Bible before training begins. Begin by reading this study together and pray together regarding all the Bible verses quoted.

Responsible Authority believers might further feel that this lifestyle was the norm in earlier cultures, and that they merely are in this view trying to go back to God's standards and the Bible and fight the culture which tries to mold our minds.

Romans 12:2 Also, do not be conformed, fashioning yourself after this present worldly dimension (culture), but rather be transformed by the renewal of your mind, so that you can test, examine and prove what is the upright and honorable and well pleasing and acceptable, and in all respects perfect, will of God.

So this debate would not have been an issue had not feminism equated Biblical discipline with abuse. In the same manner as a Christian fights against abortion, a DD could point to the past and say, "that is what God's way looked like, and the new way is abusive of women, leaving them without God's loving wisdom on how to help her flourish as a woman of God."

The accountability and proactive love model of marriage is certainly not mainstream but rather is very controversial. Therefore the Biblical questions around this issue are often not even asked, let alone an attempt to answer them. In fact, most people won't even bother with the issues, preferring to simply assume a position based on their background or emotional beliefs fed by the culture in which they grew up. That leaves the Bible out of the picture; replaced with mere human emotions.

In this article, I will answer several questions commonly asked and hopefully it will clear up any problems you may have about this lifestyle. I especially want to make sure to uncover what CAN be given as official Biblical doctrine (doctrine = teachings found in the Bible) and what cannot be given as doctrine (disputable matters not backed up by scripture).

The arguments below assume that you are a Christian and that you believe that the Bible is God's inspired word in accordance with II Timothy 3:16. I contend that if you do NOT believe, then arguments for or against Christian Domestic Discipline are immaterial since there would be no real way to find objective truth. Your definition of abuse would be whatever the changing culture teaches. If you are not a Christian but do desire to learn about Christianity, go to this Yahoo group and read the Bible Studies in the FILES section of the group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/howtobecomeachristian

EDITOR'S NOTE: You may also click this link to learn more.

Some Christians would be horrified at the concept of domestic discipline, while others might have a desire for clear accountability and real submission even if it means discipline. We need to renew our minds first by reading and understanding of the Bible and turning away from a nonchristian culture. Until our mind is renewed, we cannot trust our emotions 100% since they ARE at times wrong. Some people will be lost forever because believing in Jesus did not 'feel' right. Christians sometimes do blatant evil because it 'felt' like it was ok. Be careful!

Side note: In ANY area of life, we can have a tendency to go straight from a first impression to a final evaluation. Instead, God desires us to hold the first impression weakly if at all, then TEST the issue with the Bible and other means, and then choose by our wills (not our emotions) a final conclusion. Emotions can play a large part in such an evaluation - but should not be the deciding factor in most issues. Being led by emotions ungoverned by a desire for truth is not wise. If you read a little of this study, come to a conclusion, and never finish it or pray over it, you are only setting yourself up for being deceived, either in this area or in FAR more important ones. Emotional decisions creating faith convictions is a bad habit to allow in a life! Yet we all can be tempted to take the easy way out, especially when our emotions scream that they already HAVE perfect understanding of an issue (arrogance).

This study will almost certainly give you much food for thought on issues of love, sanctification, freedom and other issues. It could also provoke you to other than spanking ways - that married men should be 'actively responsible' such as praying for their wives, helping to set a positive God-centered tone for the family, and gentle understanding of a wife's needs.

Definitions:

DD - Domestic Discipline

Within the CHRISTIAN context it refers to a belief that the husband is to be submitted and under authority of God, and the family (wife, kids) are in turn under the husband's authority. What separates DD from simply being common conservative Christian belief is that DD further holds that authority inherently includes the ability to take action. Authority implies a power to influence and motivate those under his authority; evaluating them can lead to positive or negative consequences. Authority without the ability to create consequences is a denial of the very concept of authority. (Also called Responsible Authority).

BDSM - (Bondage, Domination/Submission, Sadism and Masochism).

The aim is sexually erotic power plays and pain for the purpose of bringing about unity between the husband and wife. DD's end result is submission in women while BDSM is to be used once the wife is in submission. DD is for training and it is where a couple should start. BDSM is for unity - making the two into 'one soul'.

Vanilla -

Someone new to the DD lifestyle. Everyone starts here and hopefully continues until they are completely living in accordance with God's word.

Proactive -

Taking action before someone is hurt or to prevent the possibility of wrong action. This concept takes action before something happens rather than reacting to a current problem. To be proactive, a husband MUST be aware constantly of his wife's life and therefore the burden is on the wife to continue to tell the husband everything she is thinking or feeling, no matter the consequences.

Abuse -

In DD terms, it generally would mean any physically harmful hitting. Discipline is FOR the person's ultimate good, while abuse brings harm to the person. (Jesus disciplines while Satan abuses) That is perhaps why DD wives can be very clear that they do not see discipline as abusive. Like many things in life, it is a short unpleasant thing with a positive purpose (like a runner who forces their body when tired, or a mother giving birth).

DD is NOT about having sexual fun; instead its main focus is gaining loving homes where power struggles, a wife's insecurities, a husband's passivity and manipulative games are replaced with love, respect and calm gentleness. It should be noted however that once a woman is spiritually where she should be submissively, she will experience much greater satisfaction from her sexual experiences. By the way, if you ever read forum posts by DD wives you may be in for an eye-opening experience. Right or wrong, some women testify of how they would never want to go back to their pre-DD lifestyles simply because now they feel loved and the war is over. And how they don't necessarily like discipline but like the results in their lives and marriages. Their statements can be quite interesting if you are not used to this viewpoint and the benefits (physically, sexually and spiritually) that these DD women claim to be gaining.

Still can't believe there even COULD be arguments for such a thing? Right or wrong, here are quite a few. I will BUILD issue upon issue, so please take the time to prayerfully go through each question in order. In that way you sill be able to evaluate Domestic Discipline's logic flow and see how the puzzle pieces fit. Please do NOT jump to later questions! Take the time to read this, please, so that you have the whole picture. Later questions may be based on issues discussed in earlier ones, for example, or assume you have read all that is before it.


Questions and Answers:

1: Does a husband have authority over his wife?

The DD's side overall would say "absolutely yes." Although some nonchristian couples just might be into DD in order to have what are seen as major benefits of that non-traditional lifestyle; others are sincere Christians who are trying to obey God. In either case the rewards are worth the efforts!

There are several passages in Scripture that clearly indicate that God sets up lines of authority that we must follow. If a Marine disobeys the captain's clear order, he or she is also disobeying the General, the president, and ultimately the entire authority of the Marines.

A starting point: Here's some Scripture on wives submitting:

1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, so that, even if some refuse to believe and obey the word of God, they will be won over without a word, because of the behavior of the wives.

1 Peter 3:5-6 For in the same way, the holy wives of former times, whose hope was towards God, also adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands; just as Sarah submissively obeyed Abraham calling him, "Lord, who owns me"; whose spiritual child you became when you began doing what was right and were absolutely not afraid of any terror.

First, notice the 'likewise' in 1 Peter 3:1. It refers to the verses in chapter 2, where God tell everyone to submit again and again. EVERYONE is to submit to kings and governors who are to punish evildoers according to 1 Peter 2:13. Then servants are dealt with and told to also be submissive and under God's will for themselves. Then in verse 25 - immediately before the wife verse - he speaks of Jesus as the Overseer of our souls.

In other words, God simply inspires Peter to bluntly tell people to submit to the authority that He had allowed or placed over them. And that this is a line of authority that runs to God. Therefore to disobey a government is to disobey God, UNLESS the government steps outside of its authority by commanding sin. After all this, the Bible pulls it all back to Jesus our Overseer (top authority). Then he immediately deals with wives.

There is no IF statements in the wife verse that would allow her to wiggle out of it, just as there are no IF statements in the commands that husbands are to obey either. Nor does God say that the wives need NOT submit after AD 1000. There is nothing conditional about verse one above - God tells us that Jesus is our Overseer, and immediately follows that with a command to the wives.

Generally people try to get around these verses by claiming it was just their culture. But that makes God out to be a poor communicator, forgetting to tell us that the rules have changed. Personally I think you need more than wishful thinking and a 'guess' that it was cultural. How can you give as proof, a guess? God does not call it cultural, and we can trust God that He would make that clear if so, especially in the case of such blunt commands.

Jesus being our Overseer - was THAT cultural? Its 5 words away from 'wives'! If the wife verse were no longer valid, why would the immediately proceeding Overseer verse still be valid? After all, they are connected. Because Jesus is overseer, wives are to submit. The word "likewise" connects the two chapters. See the flow? Submit to kings - submit to Jesus as Overseer - wives submit.

Servants ARE to submit simply because it is right and wise to do so; and being under authority leaves the servant walking well with God. The master is responsible for what he or she does to a servant, and after this 'blink of an eye' life is over they have all eternity to live in the consequences of their decisions. The servants God speaks of in I Peter died about 2,000 years ago - and so did their masters.

We need to have an eternal perspective and trust in God's wisdom above our own understanding.

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.

Actually God purposefully attacked the idea of seeing wife submission as cultural. But you may have missed it in the verses of 1 Peter. Let's look at it again:

1 Peter 3:5-6 For in the same way, the holy wives of former times, whose hope was towards God, also adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands; just as Sarah submissively obeyed Abraham calling him, "Lord, who owns me"; whose spiritual child you became when you began doing what was right and were absolutely not afraid of any terror.

In Peter's day, Rome ruled, Israel was and had been a nation for a long time; the Law had been given to Moses and so forth. That was their culture. Peter wrote to THAT culture, BUT tells them that the rules and wisdom of ABRAHAM'S culture still applied! Did you see it in 1 Peter 3:5?

These women live in a time FAR after Moses, after the giving of the Law, after the birth of Israel, after David and Solomon, after the first Temple, after the Roman occupation. And yet here God is telling them to look to godly examples from Abraham and Sarah, who lived in an entirely different culture. How could submission be a CULTURAL thing if God calls them to look OUTSIDE of their culture to follow principles shown in a previous culture? Culture doesn't matter - the fact that Sarah and others walked in God's way is what counts! Learn from their example, regardless of your culture. In other words, God had made His will clear. Each generation is simply to ignore their present culture and seek God's ways that have been recorded by the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

By the way, I find it interesting that people try desperately to make THESE clear verses only cultural, while the NEXT verses (concerning husband's role) is still supposed to be followed! How can you hold to the husband's role as still valid, but deny the wife's role given immediately before it? Here is the verse containing the husband's role. Notice the "likewise" here also - God even TIES the male part to women submitting.

1 Peter 3:7 Husbands, likewise, live together physically and sexually with the wife, through understanding, as with a weaker vessel, assigning honor even as a fellow heir of the gracious gift of eternal life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

I have NEVER heard someone say that the 'hindered prayers' part was merely cultural and ended 2000 years ago or so. And even very liberal preachers will tell the men to live 'through understanding' and to 'assign her honor'. And yet it is directly connected with wives being submissive to their husbands.

Quick note about submission

God tells us all to submit to HIM. I doubt that anyone would have thought to say to God "I didn't obey you, but I was submitting even so!" It is a contradiction in terms, and an obvious one at that. Submit meant to fall under rank and obey. A command to obey is a specific command - "do this". Submission is a pre-determined choice to obey future "do this" commands. To submit means to allow the other person the right to command in the future. It is a placing of someone 'under rank'. God tells wives to submit to their husbands. Strangely, some people insist on creating a new definition of submission to get around this.

The correct definition: This person has authority over me, so long as it is not sin before God, I am expected to obey and really need to do so to please God.

This definition might be tolerated by some when referring to God, the king, rulers, or such. BUT a second definition mysteriously appears when dealing with wives. The same word is given a new definition: I should give some honor to this person, but I am to decide what to do and do not need to obey. In fact, if he COMMANDS me he is already in the wrong! This definition is so prevalent that, although the BIBLE is clear as to what submit means, you can now find modern false definitions even in a dictionary. But how can a word be given a new definition after being understood one way for thousands of years? This new definition is actually the opposite of submission! Would you use that last definition when referring to submitting to GOD? Of course not! The word submit cannot be simply redefined because a person does not want to obey its original meaning. And yet when referring to wives, people call such disobedience 'submission'.

Regarding the verses in 1 Peter - the wife is to see Jesus as her overseer (ruler) and based on that is to submit in the same way you are to obey a law of government or a rule of your employer. But then again, in this age we have become so used to rebellion that even those commands are routinely ignored.

Whether discipline of a wife is right or wrong, arguments against the authority of a husband tend to be quite absurd. BUT if the God given authority of the husband is true, much of the rest of the DD belief system falls into place.

More verses commanding a wife to submit to her husband:

Ephesians 5:21-27Be in subjection to one another in reverence for Christ; wives, to your own husbands, as to the Lord, our Owner. For a husband is lord and master of the wife, in the exact same manner as Christ likewise is Lord and Master of the Church; He Himself being the Savior of the body. Moreover, in the exact same manner as the Church is in subjection to Christ, so also the wives to their husbands, in everything. Husbands, unconditionally love your wives, just as Christ also unconditionally loved the Church and He gave Himself up in place of her, so that He might purify her to holiness, freeing her from the defilements of sin and faults, by the spiritual cleansing of the water, by the spoken word of God, so that He might present the Church to Himself in glorious splendor, having no willingly held moral faults or small moral defects or any such things, but rather that she might be holy and faultless.

I challenge you to reread those verses carefully. Notice the following:

  • A) HOW are wives to submit? In the same way they submit to the Lord, (so much for that second definition given for submission.) "as to the Lord". So, does a person have to "be in subjection" (obey) Jesus? Or not?
  • B) Who is the head? The husband is. And what this means is clear - as Jesus is the head of the church, the ruler, so the man is in authority and is to rule. I have heard it argued that 'head' does not refer to the ruler-ship, but in the context of this and the next chapter, it makes no sense at all to try to redefine 'head' as something else just to get around the plain call for wives to obey. God says, "submit" and then (why submit?) Because that man is your head.

The church is to be 'SUBJECT' to Christ as head and "in the exact same manner" this is to happen, "so also" is a wife to be subject. After all the attempts to redefine submission, here God tells us that the church is SUBJECT to Jesus (ie. He is in authority and we must obey) and that wives are to be subject to their husbands in the same way, in "everything". These verses really aren't that hard to understand as long as someone does not come to the verses with a heart desiring to change their meaning.

IN THE EXACT SAME MANNER -SO ALSO THE WIVES. To argue that a wife need not obey, you must further argue that the church need not obey Jesus. Jesus becomes a figurehead, not a king. They are connected. As Jesus rules the church, so husbands rule their wives.

2: Is physical discipline of a wife abusive?

Some people in this culture see even spanking children as abusive. Taking kids to church might be seen as abusive to some people, since some may see religion as abusive to children. So letting the culture define what is abusive is dangerous and unwise. Since culture obviously cannot be trusted to give God's definition of what is abusive, we need to go to the Bible to find out what God considers abusive and what He does not, and set our convictions there.

Biblically, giving physical discipline and the pain involved is NOT seen as abusive, but is actually commended and pointed to as a very wise thing to do. LACK of giving pain can in fact be abusive in some cases, Biblically. Let's look at this a bit. In the Bible, spanking a CHILD is not abusive.

Proverbs 13:24 He who spares his rod hates his son. But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

And in fact God rebukes the father who does NOT give the child pain. In Hebrews 12:5-11 God tells us that He treats us the same way - loving His children, Christians, enough to correct us.

Hebrews 12:5-11 Also you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "My son, do not regard lightly the training in righteousness with discipline of the Lord, our Owner, neither become exhausted under His chastening. For whom the Lord, our Owner, unconditionally loves, He trains in righteousness with discipline, moreover He scourges with afflictions every son whom He accepts and acknowledges as His own." Persevere in spite of opposition and discouragement towards training in righteousness with discipline! God deals with you as sons; for what son is there whose father does not train in righteousness with discipline? Moreover, if you are without training in righteousness with discipline, of which all true children have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Furthermore, we had, surely, earthly fathers to instruct and chastise us and we reverenced them; shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits and have true life which is active, blessed, and without end in the kingdom of God? For they, on the one hand, were training in righteousness with discipline for a short amount of time, according to whatever seemed right to them; but God trains us in righteousness with discipline on account of our advantage and profit, so that we may be made a partaker of His holiness. Moreover, all training in righteousness with discipline for the present seems not to be joyful, on the one hand, but rather painful and grievous; yet, afterward it produces the peaceful fruit of righteousness and holiness as God has created us to live, to the ones who have been earnestly trained by it.

God reminds them of what good fathers do (cause physical pain) and then God makes it clear that

  1. they were right to do so and
  2. that God is a good parent who uses the same basic method.

God bluntly tells us in clear terms that chastisement (the giving of redemptive, corrective pain) is not abusive in and of itself. This is in contrast to torture and physical abuse, done not to correct and better but to hurt and destroy.

In Proverbs 10:13b God clearly states that the rod (physical pain given by the God-given authority) is supposed to be given to those that "lack understanding". Therefore, based on this clear statement of scripture, the rod (physical discipline) is NOT abusive but redemptive and good and honorable in God's sight.

Proverbs 10:13 On the lips of the discerning, wisdom is found, but a rod is for the back of him who lacks understanding.

Notice that the verse does NOT limit this to a government at all - it simply gives Gods view "a rod is for the back". God states a general principle that pain is supposed to be used by authority for correction. There is a general principle here, utterly proving that giving a person pain as discipline (not torture) cannot be called abuse Biblically.

Proverbs 26:3 A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, and a rod for the back of fools.

Foolish people, like dumb animals, are in need of correction. This verse compares the fool to a horse and donkey - for an authority figure to rule properly, he must make his horse trot, make his mule carry a burden, and give the "fool" motivation to also do what is right.

NOTE: These verses clearly show that DISCIPLINE and ABUSE are NOT the same in God's eyes. Discipline is godly, honorable, and commendable while abuse is not. And yet people falsely call discipline abuse in spite of God's own statements to the contrary. God clearly expects authorities to rule, and sometimes discipline is a part of wise leadership. The principle remains valid. After all, we all do foolish things and therefore temporarily find ourselves in a place of needing discipline (whether of God or of man).

Disobedience to authority can have consequences.

Why was Jerusalem destroyed? Why was Sodom destroyed? Why did Annanias and his wife fall over dead? Why has God used armies and problems to chastise people and nations? The Babylonian captivity was NOT an accident! Yes, some things just happen because God allows it to happen. But God also TELLS us that He ACTIVELY causes many things to happen. Get used to it - God is ACTIVE in spite of the wimpy view of God some seem to have.

Even Jesus spoke of disciplining those servants who knew to do good, but didn't, with many stripes. Did Jesus compare Himself to an abusive man?? NO! Jesus knew that authority had the right to discipline, and that He would have every right to do such a thing. And no one else corrected Jesus Christ's theology either! He was painting a picture of what authority has the right to do, and they understood that. God uses painful circumstances and discipline for a redemptive end. And husbands are to grow to be more like God's character of love, more godly, and have that same heart of active, moving, long-term profitable love. In other words, husbands are to grow CLOSER to God's revealed model of discipline when in responsibility, NOT farther from it like the culture teaches! Men are to forsake the short-sighted love without wisdom that many settle for. Instead, choose love combined with God's wisdom for building a good life.

In Hebrews 12, God speaks bluntly of giving Christians painful discipline at times to help us grow up. Calling the giving of pain abusive would therefore make God HIMSELF abusive! Obviously that is not the case - God DIED for us and loves us! It is His LOVE that causes Him to give us pain to train us.

Trust God - HE does not think that limited pain is abusive. His wisdom is RIGHT, regardless of the fact that the culture may have trained our emotions to scream "abuse" in direct opposition to God. Bring every thought captive to Jesus Christ.

SIDE NOTE: Torture and abuse are created AGAINST a person, to harm them. Discipline is created FOR a person, to love and help correct them. The heart attitude is miles apart, as is the final outcome when a woman accepts and allows her husband to love her enough to hold her accountable. These two things can be falsely compared merely due to an inaccurate description of DD, or in attempts to 'muddy' the issue. Is it torture to spank a child? No, it is discipline.

So tell me, did God abuse and desire others to abuse ("a rod for the back")? Of course not! Therefore physical pain in discipline is an acceptable and even godly method of using authority to enforce rules.

3: What about "let your gentleness be evident to all"? Do the character traits that God desires us to live in prohibit physical discipline?

First off, God has perfect character and, as seen already, both disciplines us with painful things AND desired pain to be given both to children and to discipline adults. GOD our example is utterly gentle and virtuous and yet is also utterly able to hold us accountable to our actions and give pain, and tell others to do so. Gentleness and discipline are not mutually contradictory, or God would be a sinner.

So be careful before you use the concept of gentleness to remove your responsibility to "speak truth in love" and act strongly when in authority. After all, does gentleness and love and patience and other virtues stop you from eventually firing a poor employee? (If you are a wise manager, no.) Or stop you from disciplining a child in some way? (Again, no.)

KEY: Gentleness has perhaps been redefined. Gentleness does NOT mean: "does not give pain." That's absurd. My dentist is gentle, but my root canal HURT!

A gentle parent can love a child and be gentle and yet be firm and give discipline. If gentleness meant never giving pain, Christian parents would be in sin every time they obeyed God's wisdom to use the rod to discipline their child properly. So obeying God would be sin.

Gentleness does not mean painless or gentle Jesus would have SINNED when he made a whip and cleared the Temple! No, He who was gentle was also expected by His Father to use authority. And authority is inherently tied to the ability to affect negatively those under authority. Where there is no ability to discipline those under you, how can there be real authority?

As for the other virtues, the point of DD is to use those virtues FOR the wife, in a godly way. Love, patience and self-control are all a part of really ruling and occasionally disciplining a wife. LOVE motivates a husband to DISCIPLINE his wife instead of WATCH her walk into a ditch and not stop her.

4: What are the benefits of dd?
  1. Obedience to God - If a man really is the head, then it is sinful for him NOT to find and use God's methods of wielding authority properly. How could we use MAN'S methods in order to properly carry the weight of responsibility God gave a man to carry?
  2. Protection of the wife spiritually - From the accusations of the enemy and other spiritual attacks. Not being under the protected "covering" of her husband places her outside of God's will, and would put her in a place where the enemy has a right to attack her. If anyone, man or woman, stands OUTSIDE of the castle walls of submission to God's order they are more open to the enemy's attack.
  3. Protection of the wife physically - Remember, Jesus the head of the church DIED for the church, and He also washes her by the water of the word. A wise husband is to "understand" his wife and live wisely with her. Authority over her means responsibility to protect and love her.
  4. Accountability - Instead of doing her own thing, discipline can give great motivation to change in areas that she didn't have the willpower or desire to change in before.
  5. Godly Parental Examples - Children might grow up with the example of a father who loves the mother and of a mother who respects the father. Instead of fights, power plays, and manipulation, they may see more peace as the wife lets go of trying to fight the husband and learns to peacefully submit and become a vibrant woman instead of the passivity found in most marriages.
  6. Stability - Some DD wives speak of discipline as an emotional help. It can stop the bad attitudes and leaves peace in its wake. It brings spiritual renewal and emotional health; a reassurance that her husband is actively choosing to love her; a way to refocus her life on the positive.
  7. Increased Confidence - The man grows in his manhood, gaining confidence in God and in his God-given role. He needs to learn to go to God, since he really IS accountable to God for his family! In weaning himself from passivity and in accepting the mantle of responsibility for the care and welfare of others, he can become more like the active man of God he was created to be. No longer allowing his wife to grab control, he can grow in the areas of proper leadership, active accountability, and in the area of being RESPONSIBLE and not merely passing the buck or passively letting it drop from his shoulders.
  8. Closer walk with God - The wife will learn peaceful submission. That is of great worth to God, since a wife who internalizes submission to her husband over time will also become more submissive to God.
  9. Stronger Faith - A faith-strengthener as someone actively tries to obey God in spite of what the culture may say, even though the other Christians may judge them for it. This sincerity and willingness to obey is very precious. Faith steps don't look nice or popular all the time anyway!

There may be more, but those are nine for you to think about. I did not go into the emotional benefits here; some wives even speak of sometimes having a need emotionally to be spanked and a calming effect that it can have? Generally they say they do NOT like the pain, but very much like the peaceable fruit of the discipline.

Their experience seems to mirror Hebrews 12:11.

Hebrews 12:11Moreover, all training in righteousness with discipline [NOTE: ANY chastening, not just God's, is referred to here] for the present seems not to be joyful, on the one hand, but rather painful and grievous; [It is SUPPOSED to be temporarily painful] yet, afterward it produces the peaceful fruit of righteousness and holiness as God has created us to live, to the ones who have been earnestly trained by it.

5: Should a wife be physically disciplined?

The best and most practical way to begin a DD lifestyle so that the marriage can be following Biblical guidelines is to have BOTH the husband and the wife agree it is the best way to live; especially if they want to be pleasing to God. Even God waits until we decide to come to Him before He begins our training and discipline. Once the agreement is reached that the wife should be in total submission and the husband is the head of the home, then the training and discipline should begin.

The master must take up not merely the MANTLE of authority, but the ROD of authority. They are a match set!

To become more like Jesus he decides that he must use God's methods that the Bible commends. He forsakes culture and chooses the Biblical view of chastisement as one way that adults are to be held accountable by those in authority over them. This is NOT Biblically called sinful, and even supported as one way that authority influences those under authority. Therefore she has no BIBLICAL grounds for not submitting.

Heart motivations are perhaps tested. Willfulness, or FEAR, or another sinful attitude may convince her not to obey God. This may show also that she is not placing faith in God and trusting God's decision to put her under authority to this man. In some cases she may even CONSIDER that her decision could be wrong. (Lack of humility or the deception of trusting her emotions more than Bible truth.) Allowing her emotions to go from first impression directly to final evaluation, she convinces herself that her nonbiblical feelings are truly 'of God' instead of allowing them in time to be conformed to God's will.

Finally, either because of falling to temptation or perhaps being honestly deceived by her untested emotions and feelings, she disobeys. She says no to her husband, refusing to submit, perhaps not fully realizing that she is disobeying God and not merely her husband.

Even a woman who passionately loves God can fail here - perhaps even easier sometimes since she may be used to trusting her emotions. But God wants us to test things. We can 'mishear' or confuse our voice/emotions for His. And our enemy certainly does not want God's authority to be properly walked out Biblically. After all, the enemy is opposed to God's rule, God's authority structure. The enemy refused God's mantle, and is to be put under God's rod - so MAYBE it can be guessed that he might want to confuse people to separate the two.

THEREFORE she is not being totally submissive to her husband, regardless of what other submissive things she may claim. She is in sin by her own admitted belief in wife submission. Because her husband made a DECISION in this area she is bound by it and God will hold her accountable to what she did with it. When she stands before God she is NOT responsible for whether her husband's decisions were all right or not. She IS however responsible to whether she obeyed the command of God to submit to her husband. And that would include submitting to his decision to use chastisement as the negative influence of his authority.

IF you believe in wives submitting to their husbands, THEN you are stuck with at LEAST the opportunity for the husband to discipline. IF authority exists and it is God ordained, then she has no basis to refuse by her own belief in submission. How can we call sinful something God NEVER condemns? Patient instruction and prayer by the husband may be warranted.

One more tidbit to ponder on this question:

God called Israel his WIFE in the Old Testament. And spoke of physically disciplining her (by the armies of her enemies, drought, and so forth). Why would God paint the picture of being an abusive husband in an attempt to convince them to LOVE Him??

Don't you see, He painted the picture of a LOVING husband - but one who had the authority and the ability to give negative consequences - the rod - to His 'wife'. And the pain of discipline was to wake her up to how she was relating to her husband, and help her to realize she should turn. (She of course had to decide to do so or not.)

The point is simple - a wife should be disciplined, and it is proper and is how God envisioned his relationship with Israel. It is MODERN CULTURE that somehow drives a wedge between the authority and the ability to evaluate and give negative physical discipline.

By the way, the New Testament Bride is NOT married yet - we have not yet reached the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Thankfully we will be perfect and pure and won't NEED discipline when Jesus comes for us because the Bride will have already prepared herself! How? By men being masters and head of their homes and women being slaves; just as the Bible teaches us to live!

Revelation 19:7-8 "Let us be glad and rejoice exceedingly; then let us give to Him the praise, honor and thanksgiving, because the marriage of the Lamb has come and His wife has prepared herself." Then clean and bright fine linen was given to her so that she might clothe herself, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the holy ones.

6: Why is this a non-issue among many Christians?

First, I believe the main reason is that this culture doesn't even consider it an option to spank a wife. The culture has trained us well. Think about it. MANY Christians will watch porn on TV (Baywatch, almost any sitcom any more, cable) and then consider cheating on their taxes. Then they will ROUTINELY break the speeding laws, regardless of God's blunt command to obey the government unless it disagrees with God. So many of us are trained by our culture that unless we are REALLY provoked by God's word, some issues are dead from the very beginning REGARDLESS of God's thoughts on the subject.

Physical discipline was routine in the past. But in homes and in government it was sometimes wrongly used to torture instead of to lovingly correct. The rod was used by people in a way not intended by the Rod-giver! Therefore, people went to the other extreme and disobeyed God by REFUSING to allow authority to use the physical pain of discipline. The rod for the back - God's CLEAR statement - was called EVIL by the masses. Since the rod had been misused, the mantle was soiled in the minds of people, and the rod lost its true purpose in many eyes.

Physical torture is WRONG! And yet, you can NOT throw out the baby with the bath water. You do not throw out marriage because some are bad, or toss out the concept of government because of some corrupt leaders. The cure would be worse than the disease! Yet, that is what happened. People trying to 'cure' evil and abuse tossed out the very fabric of God's plan to hold family and society in a proper, loving order.

You should read the testimonies of the WIVES of DD. How it changed their lives, helped or even saved their marriage, how it took them from the stench of this culture's garbage and helped them to gain the good that this culture tossed out due to fear of misuse. Read them speak of the love felt from their husbands and of the war zone being replaced with peace. And of overcoming habits with the help of their husbands (weight loss, attitudes, habits of the tongue, etc).

Modern women have been robbed and they don't even know it - they have traded away their right to a loving, responsible husband and the growth due them from him holding her accountable, loving her, and praying for her. Instead, women got needless frustration, unchecked attitudes, and unsubmission. Some have frustrating habits which might have, in time, been helped, if they were held accountable by their husbands. If no rod, then no training, and no spiritual fruit to reap.

BY GOD'S GRACE, He still trains wives personally (Hebrews 12) and so, many women DO gain much growth and maturity, praise God! But that is IN SPITE OF their husband's lack of the rod. Those opportunities are missed.

Fear of misuse is wrong. Better to concern yourself with missing God's will.

Second, the willingness to re-direct a woman to having her 'chain of command' go around her husband. Now this can be misused and misunderstood, so let me explain.

Ephesians 5:21-24 Be in subjection to one another in reverence for Christ; wives, to your own husbands, as to the Lord, our Owner. For a husband is lord and master of the wife, in the exact same manner as Christ likewise is Lord and Master of the Church; He Himself being the Savior of the body. Moreover, in the exact same manner as the Church is in subjection to Christ, so also the wives to their husbands, in everything.

Who is the head of the wife? The HUSBAND! BUT non-DD Christians often get confused at this point.

I once worked at a major corporation. I had an immediate supervisor. And WAY above me was the CEO - the head honcho. Now, if the CEO gave me a job to do, I had BETTER jump to it! HOWEVER, I cannot sit around on my duff, ignoring my immediate supervisor, waiting for a phone call from the CEO on what to do!!

That is Christian non-DD in a nutshell. They claim that a woman is under authority and work it out some. And they claim the husband is the head. BUT in general, the wife tries to bypass the husband as much as possible. Now don't misunderstand me - we ALL go to God directly. But God purposefully put the husband between Himself and the woman in the area of obedience and training. Or to put it another way - she needs to jump on ANYTHING the 'CEO' may tell her - but she has a human immediate supervisor that cannot be ignored.

Routinely, women will try to usurp the authority of the husband by trying to skip over him. They refuse any supervisor except the CEO - but in doing so, they are actually DISOBEYING the CEO who put her in her position under her husband's authority! (She would not like her children doing that to HER! Could you imagine a young child replying "yes you are my authority, but I'm going to play in the highway ANYWAY! If God doesn't like it let Him talk to me about it! Only HE can discipline and correct me!") Here are some typical responses from wives:

  • "Well, I can't do that because I think God is leading me THIS way."
  • "Well, you can make final decisions on big issues honey, but don't you DARE command me, use authority, or make a decision I don't OK first!"
  • "Ok, you are right, I don't need to tear people down with my words. But don't you even TRY to use the ROD! Just flash the mantle - if that's not enough, just pray to God for me!"
  • "He had BETTER not make a large purchase without getting my ok first!"
  • "Oh, my husband is my HEAD, but he can't command me - only God can do that."

But that statement is absurd if you think about it. If he is her head, by the very DEFINITION of authority and headship he can command! Why would God command "wives submit" if there is nothing to submit to (ie. No commands from the husband)?

Is he the HEAD - or merely a FIGUREHEAD?

God commands a man - not a suggestion, but a command. WHY can God do that? Because the man is under his authority. And since a wife is under the husband's authority, he can command and not just suggest and barter and beg and eventually let her win.

You see, non-DD Christians often by accident make TWO definitions of authority - one to God and one to the husband. God can physically discipline a man, and does so openly several times in Scripture. Why? Because God is his HEAD. But when a husband is the wife's head, headship is redefined to remove the culturally offensive 'bite' that all true authority inherently has.

Third - Another reason may be that there is confusion about abstaining from the appearance of evil. But what does this really mean?

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 but prove everything, holding fast to what is genuine; abstain from every kind of evil, even the appearance of evil.

Many elements of obedience to God OFFEND the world. Evangelism, spanking a child, daring to say there are absolute truths, and even Christianity itself. Some people can see even warning of eternal judgment as evil. They think of it as merely using fear to force people to obey.

What of JESUS? Certainly HE perfectly obeyed the heart of God in the area of abstaining from the appearance of evil, didn't he? Absolutely yes. BUT what did it look like? He drank wine, and was called a drunk. He did things on the Sabbath that caused people to accuse Him of breaking the Law of God! Jesus did NOT see 'abstaining from the appearance of evil' as doing nothing that someone could accuse as wrong. He was CRUCIFIED because He claimed to be the Son of God - a statement seen as WICKED by the unbelieving people who heard Him. But that didn't stop Jesus from doing all these things.

The key to this verse is to read it CAREFULLY. Abstain from the appearance of EVIL. It does NOT say, "abstain from the appearance of what others falsely THINK of as evil!!" You cannot look like evil - but it is ok to look like what others THINK is evil so long as it isn't REAL evil. Jesus walked this way. Since healing on the Sabbath was not ACTUALLY evil, it didn't matter that OTHERS had a false definition of evil and accused him of it. The standard is NOT the culture's definition of evil, but GOD'S definitionin this verse. Abstain from the appearance of [REAL] evil.

But since physical discipline is not evil Biblically, the verse does not apply. Discipline is not evil, so you can discipline and people could SEE you discipline and it would not matter. Since it is NOT evil to do so, it cannot 'LOOK' like evil regardless of how people try to give a "new" definition of "evil".

People call good, evil and evil, good. If the culture's definition stops someone from disciplining his whole family, then what is the Christian to do in all the OTHER areas where GOOD things of God are considered evil? Should he stop disciplining his children because culture calls that evil? Vote in a gay pastor if you are personally convinced God says no - just because to NOT vote for the gay person would be seen as intolerant and evil to the world at large? Just when do you STOP and hold to Biblical convictions if abstaining is for the WORLD'S warped view of evil??

7: Is DD related to BDSM (Bondage, Domination/Submission, Sadism and Masochism?)

They both spank. Some people may find some erotic pleasure from the experience. But BDSM and DD are not the same. A parent that spanks a child isn't automatically considered by most people to be into BDSM! There are several key differences between DD and BDSM as a whole:

DD spanking is for discipline and pain, and may be unpleasant for some husbands to perform and for most wives to accept. It's not SUPPOSED to be fun, but corrective. It is for the purpose of helping the wife grow spiritually, helping the husband be an active leader and grow, and building a marriage and family in God's wisdom. On the other hand, BDSM is into games and erotic pleasure and is not for the same purposes at all. DD is for strengthening of the woman's spiritual life while BDSM is for the married couple to become sexually erotic, which helps bring the two into unity (one soul).

BDSM spanking is for its erotic possibilities, and/or for the use of role playing and domination lifestyles where power and humiliation are often key. They use the term discipline but generally it is either sexual, or a power play, or both. BDSM may pretend to really use and abuse a woman, 'all for fun' - while DD is focused solely on loving correction to bring the wife to her God-given place in the marriage.

Submissives in BDSM are at times lowered and humiliated and ruled. They are to think of their husbands as their complete master and only seek to please him. Therefore, it would not be possible for a disobedient wife to successfully use BDSM without first becoming submissive through DD.

In a DD relationship great HONOR is to be given to the wife under authority and the wife's job is not less than the job of the leader in the sense that they are both responsible to God. Christian DD holds that there is only ONE overall master, GOD, and that the husband is in authority ONLY because God put him there. Both husband and wife are to seek GOD and seek to practically love and honor one another. They are joint heirs in Jesus Christ, and are equally loved. It is merely a matter of God giving different job positions and responsibilities to each.

Christian DD's basically have decided that the head of the household must PRACTICALLY love by holding the wife accountable, and to love and protect her. Both have a commitment before God to take seriously such words as submit and authority and love - and to work it out in the real world by using discipline. To deny discipline is to deny real authority. Authority carries more than just a badge and a figurehead status. And the mantle of authority should not be separated from the rod.

To be successful in BDSM without first becoming submissive is not possible. It all starts with DD and then, once the wife is perfected in her Biblical role as a wife, the two can use BDSM to become closer into total unity which is the purpose of BDSM.

IMPORTANT NOTE: These are my views of the difference between DD and BDSM. Keep in mind that some couples feel free to add BDSM to their lives as an erotic experience. For example, a wife who is disciplined by spanking may also occasionally get a swat for fun or be bound for erotic reasons. It should not be confused with DD. DD itself has a different focus and emphasis. The purpose of this paper is NOT to debate BDSM and muddy the issue at hand, BUT to show that they cannot just all be lumped together by people unaware of the many differences.

8: I am interested in DD, and believe it is both Biblical and beneficial. I want a marriage with love, respect and accountability. How do I tell my spouse/future spouse about this?

I would suggest this article of course. Or maybe get him or her curious by having fun on a Christian DD forum on the web - just go there with him, and read some posts together. Talk to others by contacting them via this group and ask if they were helped by using DD or BDSM. Build a small group of friends and begin to confide in them your misgivings or your excitement.

It can be quite a SHOCK to see how the DD wives are so blessed by having God's program of authority in the household!! Those testimonies are great ways to put 'flesh and blood' on these concepts. This paper can be dry but their touching stories, changed lives, marriages enriched can show just how lovely this all is when applied by people choosing God's way in love and respect.

Don't worry if he or she puts down the posts or seems negative. That may be a good time to read this article together, using curiosity developed from the group.

If you are a female, nothing is stopping you from beginning your life of submission even if your husband won't help you. Once you begin to be submissive to him in obedience to the Bible, he will see the benefits and his curiosity will be aroused and I know from past experience that he will begin to take his role as master of the house.

1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, so that, even if some refuse to believe and obey the word of God, they will be won over without a word, because of the behavior of the wives.

9: Do you have any practical guidelines? (both wife and husband should read both lists!!)

To the husband

  1. Make sure that she knows your expectations. It is not fair in general to discipline her in areas she honestly did not know she was in the wrong.
  2. You are effective if she loves and respects you. But this can be horribly misused. For example, we are to revere God (respect God and respect His discipline and rule over our lives). But a Christian is a CHILD of God and is NOT to live in terror (I John speaks of perfect love casting out that type of fear). As a husband, NEVER inspire personal terror, but it is ok if she is in fear of a spanking - that is natural.
  3. The idea is discipline, not humiliation. Her bottom should be hurt, but she should not be intentionally publicly humiliated. This is a private thing. Others may know you are DD, but she should not have to fear that you would spank her openly.
  4. DD is NOT an excuse for a power trip!! You must concentrate on being UNDER authority to God - THAT is your focus. And as God's servant and child, you then on that basis choose to love your wife and responsibly lead her. If you LOSE this focus you can lose the healthy understanding of being under authority, and become domineering. Domineering is sin and shows selfishness and pride, all of which saps your wife's trust and respect in you. (Following THIS article alone should give you a great start on deciding how to apply DD.) If she sees you as humble and for HER good, then she can respect you. If she routinely sees domineering pride, she will question your motive for discipline (merely selfish desire to control and not love) and that will really hurt your marriage relationship and her willingness.
  5. Her rear end and maybe 'nearby' is the only appropriate target. The Bible speaks of a rod to the back, but she is more sensitive and I suggest you stick with the safer spot. You want to be ultra-cautious with your treasure and not do any harm. Discipline is to be temporary - never even THINK of doing something that would give a long-term harm. That would show a lack of concern for her well-being, and she could lose respect for you. Give her spankings to remember, and let her sit on pillows occasionally. But that's it.
  6. Be consistent in discipline (spanking AND non-spanking). If you are on again, off again, you are not taking your love responsibility seriously enough. Does God take breaks from loving you? No, that does NOT mean that you always spank - pray for wisdom. But you never want her to question whether you are obeying God by walking out your headship in a responsible way. Passivity is sin. Do not shirk your responsibilities before God.

While you need to avoid passivity, keep in mind that spanking is not always the way to go. It is a TOOL, and you need to be WISE! And part of wisdom - perhaps the greatest part at times - is when NOT to use a tool. It's fine to give her vacations from the possibility of spanking, for a short time, or use other measures (withhold a privilege that is optional but fun for her, for example). And quite frankly, over time she shouldn't need it as often anyway as she seeks through God to develop self-control and submission as a lifestyle. Be wise and loving.

Note - Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit. Fruits are grown, not instantly, but they get bigger with time. A husband can motivate her to go to God, to seriously seek God and walk in the faith needed to grow that fruit. At first, in the first few years of marriage, you may find her in need of accountability in many areas. Be sensitive, work on only a few main areas at a time, but do what you must. If you work on EVERYTHING at once, she may feel she is disciplined too much. She may feel a great weight of trying to be perfect in many areas, and that simply isn't fair. Like a wise parent does with children or a wise manager with a new employee, PICK several issues and don't overwhelm with everything at once. When the initial issues are dealt with, and she has accountability, prayerfully add to them or replace them. How can she learn self-control, break old habits and learn new habits if she feels she has to be perfect in all things right from the beginning of the marriage? Pray, pick the areas to work on first, and go from there.

SHE IS A WOMAN OF GREAT VALUE - TREAT HER AS SUCH. You may have to cut a diamond to make it sparkle - but because of it's worth you do so CAREFULLY and with skill!! (And no you don't let it remain dull and without facets to reflect light - you DO shape it 'painfully' so to speak. It's a great analogy for DD, even though it is limited.) Be very kind. Make the conversation open. Make the acts of respect and love free. Make the encouragement routine. Make the spankings real, not play, and painfully honest. And make the focus on God your number 1 priority.


To the wife:

  1. Keep your focus on obeying GOD. Don't be too husband-focused. Your goal is to please Christ, not merely obey your husband. If you concentrate on your imperfect husband, you may find it hard to walk in FAITH. Husbands aren't always faith-building! Look to JESUS, not the waves, like Peter did when he was successful in walking on water. When he looked to the waves (your husband?), his faith wavered and he fell. God really does work for the Christian woman's good - don't hinder God's blessings to you by a lack of faith in God!
  2. IF you trust in God and resting there, then you can have faith that God will use your imperfect husband to be a blessing to you. If you can't, it is an issue of YOUR FAITH, not your husband's. No man is so bad that God cannot love you and bring something good out of it. Trust God's eternal perspective.
  3. Your husband is imperfect. Therefore, you will almost certainly be given commands that you disagree with. So long as it is not sinful to obey, you will need to TRUST GOD and OBEY GOD and simply obey your husband.
  4. There will be commands to prepare to be spanked. Respect his leadership. If you strongly disagree with him and don't believe you should be spanked, then tell him with a submitted attitude. But even if you disagree, you are still under authority and must before God go and prepare for discipline. He has the authority by God to discipline you - it is between him and God whether he is doing it for the right things or not. (He could be wrong, true, but you could be as well.)

Your husband will NOT always choose wisely, but God has given authority and you have to come to grips with

  1. your husband's right to fail
  2. your obedience even when he does.

ALL human authority messes up at times. But God still tells us to obey. God KNEW people would err - He isn't caught by surprise. But God decided that authority is a must, and that when those in authority fail this will be a way for others to grow in godly character as they learn to obey and trust God anyway.

Let God sort it all out - YOU could be wrong yourself. Can you trust GOD to work all of this for good? Since GOD sees all this, TRUST God. Let it work in you good character traits - face it, life isn't fair for ANY of us and yet we still must act obediently and responsibly.


After The Questions, Some Final Important thoughts

Discipline would not be much of an issue, I believe, had men not abused women so often by hitting, raping and molesting them. It is the EMOTIONAL baggage of such things that cloud the issue.

And we live in a culture whose God is self-authority. Authority is not seen as an absolute that God gave in love to protect us. No, authority is instead thought to be merely a way that society protects itself. Instead of authority as love, authority becomes a necessary evil.

God calls freedom from authority 'disobedience' and is destructive. But to this society, freedom from authority is considered the goal. You want to grow up, so that you do not need to be under your parent's authority - while God tells us ALL to submit to your parents. You want to go into business so that you don't need a boss's authority, while God tells us to submit where He places us and learn the character traits of godliness through such things.

Our culture has falsely defined success as freeing oneself from more and more authority! While God looks at the sad mess we make, as we somehow convince ourselves that enthroning selfishness and not respecting authority is somehow good. Respect authority? We barely TOLERATE it!

God's love speaks the opposite. For example, a person is to leave his or her parents and cleave to their spouse. A person is supposed to go from one authority to another, Biblically, as a safety net around them - so that they are always covered in practical love.

But this culture has people simply leaving authority, doing their own thing, and learning to live selfish lives as they please. Then wondering why society falls apart, why most women in this culture are hurt and have trouble trusting men, why many men are often self-centered and out for their own interests and not caring responsibly for the people around them, etc.

The command to honor your father and mother meant that they were to be respected as your authority. Instead of using the teen years to rebel, the teen years are supposed to be the loving launch pad; a time where the teen learns to humbly listen to advice and grow into a man or woman of strength and character. Humble enough to listen to authority, wise enough to get help before building a life -- building a life instead of wasting their time.

Most marriages waste much more time COPING with a wife's problem areas than a DD marriage spends CORRECTING it. A DD wife may spend a short time learning not to gossip and backbite, and be ok after that. A non-DD wife may spend all her life destroying relationships. And her husband wastes decades trying to cope with what he should have used his authority to help her overcome.

COPING is like sowing WEEDS in your garden. The act of coping is a waste of time, AND the later fruit is weeds! It is MUCH better to spend time praying with her over an issue, holding her accountable, spank her (weed the garden) as needed, and sow GOOD seeds that produce a crop of peace!!

Hebrews 12:11 Moreover, all training in righteousness with discipline for the present seems not to be joyful, on the one hand, but rather painful and grievous; yet, afterward it produces the peaceful fruit of righteousness and holiness as God has created us to live, to the ones who have been earnestly trained by it.

We learn obedience by being earnestly trained through suffering. It really is God's method.


Summary for Submission and Discipline

---- A husband is in authority over his wife.

---- Discipline is not sin and abuse, and is given honor by God in the Bible by being a method He Himself uses in love, and by God commending several times the wisdom of humans in authority using it. The mantle has the rod. Emotions to the contrary need to be submitted unto God.

---- A husband can choose God's tool. Since it is not sinful for authority to use physical discipline, his wife is commanded by God to obey.

---- A wife who refuses discipline should prayerfully and in faith come to grips with her God's commands to obey her husband. If she cannot submit here, then submission as a whole is in doubt - how can you call yourself submitted if you only submit where you WANT to? That "false" submission is really simply manipulation and control, as the wife has final veto authority by choosing what to submit to.

---- She is also hindering the outflow of God's love through her husband. God deeply cares for her, and DOES want her best. But He makes it clear that for her to be the powerful, strong woman of God that He desires, she must overcome 'self' through submission. Only by putting down her desires can she pick up godly character, since her selfishness fights the growth of virtue.

---- If she has NOT been trained by the painful chastising, she may forfeit some peaceable fruit that could have been hers. She may spend decades trapped in bad attitudes and sinful habits that might have been corrected. She may destroy relationships, even hurt or wreck her marriage, all for the protection of her disobedient heart. DD is not a guarantee of things working out, and at times you may need to walk in FAITH in God's wisdom. But NOT using DD may cause some habits to go on uncorrected that may be hurtful later.

---- Discipline (spanking) can not CAUSE freedom or maturing. But it CAN re-prioritize and help motivate the wife. Remember, people get used to their sins and actually assume others will simply learn to cope. It sometimes takes godly chastising and the pain of it to motivate us to forsake passivity in an area.

---- Spirituality is NOT running your own life your own way. Even Jesus did not do that, but lived in total submission to His father - I ONLY do what I see the Father doing. Since Christ is the head of the husband, Christ will discipline and train him, sometimes through painful chastising. Since the wife's head is the husband, the husband is to follow God's method and do the same in wisdom and active, responsible love.

SINCE God gave husbands authority over their wives, AND SINCE authority has the ability to give consequences (as the Bible is very clear), THEN a man may lovingly give those negative consequences to his wife in order to care for her in a way similar to how God cares for us.

This is an iron-tight logical and Biblical argument as long as emotions don't get in the way.

May God help everyone who reads this to get past any emotional hurts, any embarrassment, and training from the culture, and instead renew their minds and walk in God's wisdom as He revealed.

May the men love their wives enough to pursue using God's wisdom. And may the women get past the feelings and the fears and radically press into this issue as a way to further love their Savior!

For God loves us with an overwhelming love beyond comprehension - may we all trust His wisdom!


Scriptures Used In This Study:

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.

Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, so not reject the discipline of the Lord, or loathe His reproof, for whom the Lord loves He reproves, even as a father, the son in whom he delights.

Proverbs 10:13 On the lips of the discerning, wisdom is found, but a rod is for the back of him who lacks understanding.

Proverbs 13:24 He who spares his rod hates his son. But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

Proverbs 22:6Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 23:13-14 Do not hold back discipline from the child, although you beat (smite) him with the rod, he will not die. You shall beat (smite) him with the rod, and deliver his soul from Sheol.

Proverbs 26:3 A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, and a rod for the back of fools.

Romans 12:2 Also, do not be conformed, fashioning yourself after this present worldly dimension (culture), but rather be transformed by the renewal of your mind, so that you can test, examine and prove what is the upright and honorable and well pleasing and acceptable, and in all respects perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 5:21-27 Be in subjection to one another in reverence for Christ; wives, to your own husbands, as to the Lord, our Owner. For a husband is lord and master of the wife, in the exact same manner as Christ likewise is Lord and Master of the Church; He Himself being the Savior of the body. Moreover, in the exact same manner as the Church is in subjection to Christ, so also the wives to their husbands, in everything. Husbands, unconditionally love your wives, just as Christ also unconditionally loved the Church and He gave Himself up in place of her, so that He might purify her to holiness, freeing her from the defilements of sin and faults, by the spiritual cleansing of the water, by the spoken word of God, so that He might present the Church to Himself in glorious splendor, having no willingly held moral faults or small moral defects or any such things, but rather that she might be holy and faultless.

Ephesians 6:4 And fathers, do not provoke your children, inciting them to anger, but rather bring them up in training and discipline, leading to moral excellence, and gently cautioning them about the dangers of spiritual error towards the Lord, our Owner.

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 but prove everything, holding fast to what is genuine; abstain from every kind of evil, even the
appearance of evil.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 Moreover, a bondslave of the Lord, our Owner, must not dispute or be quarrelsome, but rather be mild and gentle toward everyone, skillful in teaching, patient and forbearing when suffering for righteousness sake; with gentleness and meekness, training with discipline those who place themselves in opposition, if perchance God may grant to them repentance, leading to a precise and correct knowledge of the truth, and they return to a sound mind, set free from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him against their will.

Hebrews 12:5-13 Also you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "My son, do not regard lightly the training in righteousness with discipline of the Lord, our Owner, neither become exhausted under His chastening. For whom the Lord, our Owner, unconditionally loves, He trains in righteousness with discipline, moreover He scourges with afflictions every son whom He accepts and acknowledges as His own." Persevere in spite of opposition and discouragement towards training in righteousness with discipline! God deals with you as sons; for what son is there whose father does not train in righteousness with discipline? Moreover, if you are without training in righteousness with discipline, of which all true children have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Furthermore, we had, surely, earthly fathers to instruct and chastise us and we reverenced them; shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits and have true life which is active, blessed, and without end in the kingdom of God? For they, on the one hand, were training in righteousness with discipline for a short amount of time, according to whatever seemed right to them; but God trains us in righteousness with discipline on account of our advantage and profit, so that we may be made a partaker of His holiness. Moreover, all training in righteousness with discipline for the present seems not to be joyful, on the one hand, but rather painful and grievous; yet, afterward it produces the peaceful fruit of righteousness and holiness as God has created us to live, to the ones who have been earnestly trained by it. On which account, strengthen the weak hands and the feeble knees, and make straight and upright paths for your feet, so that those who are weak and stumbling will not be turned aside from the path of righteousness and holiness, but rather more preferably, he will be made whole and his salvation be made sure.

1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, so that, even if some refuse to believe and obey the word of God, they will be won over without a word, because of the behavior of the wives.

1 Peter 3:5-7 For in the same way, the holy wives of former times, whose hope was towards God, also adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands; just as Sarah submissively obeyed Abraham calling him, "Lord, who owns me"; whose spiritual child you became when you began doing what was right and were absolutely not afraid of any terror. Husbands, likewise, live together physically and sexually with the wife, through understanding, as with a weaker vessel, assigning honor even as a fellow heir of the gracious gift of eternal life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

Revelation 19:7-8 "Let us be glad and rejoice exceedingly; then let us give to Him the praise, honor and thanksgiving, because the marriage of the Lamb has come and His wife has prepared herself." Then clean and bright fine linen was given to her so that she might clothe herself, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the holy ones.

Written by Ned & Maria - for thier Yahoo! Group - Masters and Slaves for Jesus